Thoughts on Time, Part 1 (by Spencer)

“Whereas the bird is at home in the air, we are clearly not at home in time- because we belong to Eternity. Time, as much as any one thing, whispers to us that we are strangers here.” Neal A. Maxwell

When out of the body, I learned without restraint that I was eternal, that I existed before I came here to this earth. This reality was so very strong and clear and present before me. I knew in an instant that I understood the spirit body so unmistakably and completely that I again possessed. I knew how to use it and I rejoiced in this reunion with this extraordinary spirit body, given to my intelligence as a gift from God. The concept of time and space were all around me. Yet it was a new time and the parameters associated with this time I was now experiencing had changed. I quickly learned and felt familiar with the new (once clearly understood) process of time and space, which I again was being allowed to encounter. I believe this is why I felt free to wander and explore my environment so freely. Time had changed; however, there was no learning curve needed to fully understand it and operate within its new structures and order.

I soon realized that we come from other regions, other nations, which if revealed anew to our minds the reality of these recovered memories would make time here seem as tinkling brass and sounding cymbals. We have forgotten so much of the Order and time we all once experienced, loved and lived so vibrantly in. Time was once our beloved friend and companion. Our spirits, seem to long to return to the time we once enjoyed. To be there all felt so much like coming home. For these reasons and others, this place where we now reside is referred to as the lone and dreary world. Here, there is shared governance and we are subject to laws of men, the influence of Satan, and the veil of forgetfulness often complicates our remembering and knowing what we once knew so freely and once enjoyed so fully.

To say I enjoyed this reunion and remembering would be such an understatement. I gloried in it and loved the reality of God the Father and His son no longer being an object of belief or faith. Their existence was a held law, a moment-to-moment reality, and this reality permeated all that was in this place, and all that this glorious habitation was about. It was the glue, the order, and the kingdom of God that made this place what it was. All things praised them, spoke their names and gladly followed their order, laws and commands. “Zion” is the word that expresses all that this Eternity was, is and will ever be. We have fallen so far and the veil keeps us from remembering the peace, contentment and joy that permeates from these regions and precincts.

The Reckoning of Time

Let’s turn to the Doctrine and Covenants to hear anew an answer to the question, “Is not the reckoning of God’s time, angel’s time, prophet’s time, and man’s time, according to the planet on which they reside?” Joseph’s answer was, “I answer, Yes. But there are no angels who minister to this earth but those who do belong or have belonged to it. The angels do not reside on a planet like this earth; But they reside in the presence of God, on a globe like a sea of glass and fire, where all things for their glory are manifest, past, present, and future, and are continually before the Lord. The place where God resides is a great Urim and Thummim.” (D&C 130:4-9)

What an amazing amount of information is given to us here. What is a great Urim and Thummin? From my experience, I learned that it is all the light and truth one can see, comprehend and all things are held in this great repository of light, information, experience and truth. All things “past, present and future…are continually before the Lord.” So after the Earth reaches this glorified state, all things pertaining to an inferior kingdom, all time associated with this kingdom or kingdoms will be manifest to those who dwell on the glorified earth. All lights and perfection, all ability to bring to light hidden things are manifest. All that the Father and Son have ever thought, done, experienced, lived, created or ordered is contained in these structures. Can you get your mind around this concept? For to me it is as broad as Eternity and as comprehensive as all that the Father hath!

Joseph Smith said the celestialized earth serves a revelatory purpose, providing those who inhabit it with knowledge about lesser worlds or planets. Thus, if a man or woman has the opportunity to spend five minutes in these regions and precincts, he then remembers, and learns of things once only dreamed of.

When angels visit the Earth they must adjust to our earthly time. They live in a different time structures than we do. All heavenly being sent hear to do a work for the Father and the Son must leave their abode and morph if you will into our time and condition. Can you see why their feet often do not touch our soil unless they are changed or they condescend to it to experience once again our fallen condition and gain renewed sympathy for our plight in this lone and dreary world?

As an example, I remind you of a visitor who came to Joseph Smith whom we are all very familiar with. The master teacher Moroni came to Joseph in his bedroom to reveal eternal truths. What we may learn from his visit? Joseph was calling upon God and discovered a light appearing in his room. It started small and increased in brightness until his once dark room was brighter than noonday. Moroni stood near his bedside, his feet not touching the floor.

In my experience, discussed in ‘Visions of Glory’, my companion and I never needed to be introduced, for all of that social contrivance proceeded us, so wherever I was directed to go by my guide, the information of who we were and why we were there went before us and the light that accompanied our presence proceeded us and introduced us before we arrived. The information regarding introductions and social formalities were contained in the light that preceded us. All about us was known in the light. The why, what and when of the situation was held in this light that went before us.

Albert Einstein postulated, and it has been confirmed, that light travels toward us or away from us at the constant speed of 186,282 miles per second. No matter how fast we ourselves may be moving, light will always pass us at the full speed of light. Nothing else that we know of acts that way — only the otherworldly gift that we call light.

Recall that Jesus is the Light of the world, and that we were called the Light of Truth (D&C 93:30) All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence.

“Behold, here is the agency of man, and here is the condemnation of man; because that which was from the beginning is plainly manifest unto them, and they receive not the light. And every man whose spirit receiveth not the light is under condemnation. For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy; and when separated, man cannot receive a fulness of joy.” (D&C 93:29-34)

It appears that we must receive this light, for in it is that which enlightens our mind and brings us back in line with the understanding and knowledge we once possessed. However, we have now lost our direct connection with the light, and all that the light has to teach us and help us remember. Note that the light represents Christ and the Father, just as the seed did in Alma’s testimony to the Zoramites.

So when I read of these accounts in Joseph, our beloved prophet’s life, in light of my own brief experience, I think, “What additional information was given to the Prophet Joseph about the Father and the Son, and about Moroni, Mormon, Abraham, Elijah and Paul and all the other Prophets that were sent to him as he was directed and taught in the restoration of this the last dispensation of the fullness of times?”

If I, in my great weakness, was allowed to see the little that I received, imagine what the Prophet Joseph might have seen, learned and beheld as these resurrected beings, just men made prefect and other realms of heavenly beings instructed and spoke to him throughout his life as our dispensational Prophet, Seer and Revelator. I am sure he learned so much about times, seasons of times, how each of them lived and the order of these times and how they each operated within their God-given missions as they carried out the orders of times and seasons given unto them.

I cannot begin to express what is learned while in their presence. Remember that when we are permitted to see them, we see them as they see themselves and know them as they know themselves. All this added information is before them, behind them, through them, above them and under them and spills out as you watch them operate, speak and interact with you and the other spirits, angels and beings you encounter.

Joseph states regarding Moroni, “His whole person was glorious beyond description.” He said he then learned his name was Moroni and explained the work Father had for him to do. Moroni quoted scripture to him and Joseph could begin to see his role in these ancient scriptures. The old scriptures were now seen in the light of this time (the fulness of times) which Moroni was foretelling while quoting ancient scripture to Joseph, he for whom these scriptures were written of. Joseph could see as Moroni spoke of the book that was hidden. He states, so deep were the impressions made on my mind that sleep had fled and I lay overwhelmed in astonishment at what I had both seen and heard. This was repeated three more times, imprinting this knowledge onto Joseph’s mind that it would never be taken from Him. In verse 54, Joseph concludes, “I went at the end of each year, and at each time I found the same messenger there, and received instruction and intelligence from him at each interview. Respecting what the Lord was going to do, and how and in what manner his kingdom was to be conducted in the last days.

“Is there not an appointed time to man upon earth? Are not his days also like the days of an hireling?” (Job 7:1)
Joseph’s days were known, just as your days are know to Father. We must “Trust in him at all times; ye people, pour out your heart before him: God is a refuge for us.” (Psalm 62:8)

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21 Responses to Thoughts on Time, Part 1 (by Spencer)

  1. Maren says:

    Spencer, hopefully you will read this though it does not need to be posted as a comment and probably should not be. My wonderful 19 year old son was impressed to give me your book for Christmas. I have read and re-read it , listened to you reunion talk and check this site daily.

    The last days and the tribulations have been an obsession since childhood. As a very little kid I would steal drawing paper from the school room cupboard and keep it in a little blue suitcase under my bed. I was so afraid the end of the world would come and I would have nothing to draw on. The Father has given me tremendous artistic gifts, please don’t think I am being arrogant, there is no medium I cannot master and art comes easily to me, but I have never been able to make a living with it, and quite frankly have given up trying. Sadness has sapped my creative ability and I am left empty. I felt if the Lord had wanted me to be successful with it I would have been, I have come to the conclusion that God knew if I could support myself and my kids I would leave my husband so fast it would make his head spin, and God wants me to stay and endure so my kids would be secure.

    My three sons are amazing. Though their father has been inactive for some twenty five years, the two older ones served missions and the younger one is almost ready to submit his mission papers. Maybe it has paid off but it has cost me dearly. No longer can I put pencil to paper, there is no joy, no desire to create no happiness, in fact I can think of nothing other than the boys I really care about, and I can think of no greater hell than eternal marriage.

    Sorry, back to the last days and the tribulations…I have tried heart and soul to “prepare every needful thing” though there is much left to do, my concern is of course for people but they can be self-sufficient ( when they are not depending on the government to feed them which brings up a whole “nother issue) and I believe they each made a commitment to be here at this time and place, my concern is for the animals, I care for nearly 50 animals, most of them have been thrown away or dumped in my yard, They are innocent and depend entirely on someone to feed and care for them. In your visions did you see how animals fared? I can only imagine and be tormented by the images of cats and dogs, farm animals, caged animals, zoo etc, dying in the most agonizing manner. If by chance I am alive in these times, it is my great desire to care for and feed all who come my way, what about the four footed ones? Can you help me with this? My sons worry about their future, the oldest is getting his degree in flight science, he will be a pilot, he wonders if there will be a point to it, if the school loan debt for flying time is just wasted, I understand why he feels that way and I keep telling him he has to live as if there were another hundred years ahead of him but its really hard for my sons and for me too. What is the point of being an artist if there is no one who wants your art? what is the point in anything?
    Sorry to write this to you, I have not been able to get you out of my head since Christmas. Right now I am so empty and broken I am not so sure I care about anything, even the animals seem a burden right now. Though there are several snoring by my feet right now.

    Your trials with your health, are Improving I hope? it seems you have had more than a life times worth. I am sorry you recently lost your friend, I hope you can find another outlet for the overwhelming information you have been given, if for no other reason than to find someone to share that burden with.

    Sorry for this stupid email. I have told everyone who I thought might be the least bit interested in your book. I hope people wake up and prepare. Some will. Hopefully those who do can build the life boats for those who do not.

    I send you my love and gratitude.


    • Carol says:

      I think it is so wonderful that we can reach out here. How blessed is Maren that her sons have followed her in the light. My heart goes out to her in her sorrows. I am reminded of something that really stood out to me in the last post on fear and faith. In it we are reminded that the inexperienced or newly translated were at times overcome by sorrow and fear and could not be taken back through their portals until they had overcome that in order to not pollute Zion. I can see fear, as it is the opposite of faith. But sorrow too, that gave me alot to ponder. Our children and those around us need to see through our examples that living faithful lives brings joy and happiness. The adversary will gladly hold us down to the mat if we let him. Through the strength of Christ we can rise triumphant.


    • RaNae says:

      I wish I could contact you directly to tell you how loved you are. I remember a time when I felt “eternal marriage” was the last thing I wanted. I was comforted by a thought that agency was an eternal principle and choosing to remain married now did not sentence me to an eternity of misery. I told the Lord as long as he wanted me where I was, I would remain and seek his direction.

      Now, I rejoice because God has led me to a place of peace and joy. I am still in my marriage, and not all the circumstances have changed, but I feel the constant peace of the Spirit teaching me. I rejoice because without my sorrow, I would not have learned to know true joy. I have felt glimpses of that future joy and no longer think it impossible for me.

      Just a couple days ago, I found a link to a workbook, Healing Through Christ which describes the 12-step recovery for family members who suffer as a result of others’ choices. As I have read through the steps, I recognize the Spirit did teach me all things I should do to bring me first to Christ through faith and obedience, then to healing. Now I am grateful to have this resource to continue and share.

      I don’t know if a link here will work, if not, please search and find it.

      My question for Spencer on this topic is whether he feels the epidemic of addiction and abuse is another invitation to bring as many of us to the Savior before the “really bad stuff” begins. I feel I have learned many of the lessons he describes in the personal storms of my own life. I had to have a truly broken heart before I learned to hear the Savior and follow his voice.


    • Jason says:

      Maren, I just have to let you know I appreciate your comments. I feel sorrow for your burdens but I rejoice in your desire to raise your sons in righteousness. The world may not see that as much of an accomplishment, but such love and sacrifice is worthy of praise to the point of being recorded in the annals of heaven. If you enjoyed Spencer’s book, I recommend reading “Led by the Hand of Christ” by Suzanne Feeman as a confirmation of heaven’s approval and celebration of love for family. I pray the Lord will strengthen you and enable you to rejoice in your gifts.


  2. Matthew says:

    Since music is a time-based art, and time is different outside of this world, I can only imagine that music of the celestial sphere must be beyond my mortal comprehension.


  3. Jason says:

    What profound insight Spencer. It’s almost too much for my little brain to comprehend, yet your explanation makes sense. I appreciate you sharing your insight because many of the things you share I feel like I’ve always known, but have forgotten.


    • (Spencer) says:

      How sweet it is to share with you these things. If I had not experienced them I could not even begin to comprehend them, let alone try and write an explanation of their glory and Eternal-ness. For Father has so much he wants to share with us if only we continue to ask and hope in faith. Remember He will always answer our prayers, but He usually does so through some one else. Then we all grow together in His knowledge and truth.


  4. RaNae says:

    Thank you! You have described more that I can comprehend with my rational mind, but the light I perceive when I read about celestial things fills me with joy. This is truly spiritual food and I thank you for sharing.


  5. Blake says:

    Spencer, thank you for passing on your experience. I read Visions of Glory and was thoroughly moved by the way you depict a frightening, inspiring, wondrous adventure to Zion. The timeline of social events and calamities preceding the quake make perfect sense based on mankind’s current trajectory. I served a mission in Haiti in the late 80s. I returned to that ravaged nation just after the earthquake in 2010, stunned to see the aftermath. We took a team of nurses and surgeons to Leogane, a still-standing LDS branch building right near the epicenter. We slept on the hard floor, and the aftershocks that would come in the night were terrifying. Since that time I’ve been particularly worried about a quake here in Utah, but your experience has actually caused me to look forward to it. Like you, I saw what the after effects can do to a people when tested. The gospel, this church, and the priesthood are Haiti’s only hope, and the Saints will save it. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.


  6. Nancy says:

    Wow! Time is such a complicated concept for me. All I know is that when I’m doing what’s right and following the Savior the best way I know how I seem to get everything done that needs to get done (Visiting Teaching, Family scripture study, Family Home Evening, callings more magnified, regular temple visits, dates with my husband, dates with my kids, and much, much more). And at those times in the past when I have been more unanxiously engaged in righteous causes, I never had enough time for anything. It seemed like it was always too late for Family Home Evening, and my husband and I could never make it to the temple that week… I believe John Pontius talked about this a little in his book ” The Triumph of Zion”
    Anyway – time is an interesting subject. Thankyou for posting this even if I don’t understand the speed of light. (lol) These posts are always uplifting and I love reading them.
    Thank you


  7. Tom says:

    Time and space form a continuum bound together to make an experience “real.” In Visions of Glory it seems that Spencer experienced the different continuums peculiar to each realm. The experience after death wandering around the waiting room where his wife was sitting had its unique continuum. His other experiences, no doubt had their own time/space continuum. That was from Spencer’s perspective while from the angel that guided Spencer through many of his visions and visitations there was no doubt another perspective of time and space. Time occurs when one form of matter moves in relation to another so time is relative to the perspective of each entity. After experiencing these things then Spencer had to come back and write down in a linear fashion things that had occured in a spiritual round. This is difficult as displayed by the writings of Isaiah who saw so much but then had to put it down on “paper” so we who have been trained only in mortal time and space can understand. How can one adequately explain an experience in another space/time continuum to us bound by only undertanding our mortal continuum? It would be most difficult.
    Mortal time is our enemy because it is wrought with entropy or the indisputable law of things have a tendency to disorganize. We forget, we get sick, we have to learn line upon line, and etc. It flies in the face of the Rolling Stones old song of time is on our side, yes it is, yes it is. Only by alighing ourselves with God can time be on our side.
    As stated in the D&C there is no kingdom in which there is no space and there is no space in which there is no kingdom dovetails perfectly into Visions of Glory. Spencer is moving from one time/space continuum to another at ease. Like us walking from one room to another, Spencer can be in another continuum while to a mortal it would take a plane ride of hours or much longer. Since as stated in the D&C there is no end to space within a kingdom or an entity even as there is no end to entities within that space. This is another eternal round of God explained to us in mortality who live in the linear.
    I am so impressed with Visions of Glory because it contains within it the science of Theology which in no way approaches the Zionistic message that it teaches but only augments that beautiful message. One must see both the message and how the message is delivered. This makes the book even more believable when it dovetails so nicely with science as I currently understand it. Thank You again.


  8. Knightingale says:

    Hi Spencer,
    Thank you so much for this continued beacon of light. I am so grateful for your posts. I especially enjoyed this one today because I had an experience where I felt this “eternal feeling” you are discussing. In 2008 I was feeling that I wanted to die so that I could be normal. I didn’t feel normal at all, everything I did seemed like a mistake. I had a dream one night that two “cousins” came to get me from my bed. I knew I had died, but I didn’t remember how. I then proceeded to fly through this place they had taken me, but I couldn’t grab onto the ladder I was climbing. The angels said I would begin to remember how to use my spirit body. I felt so carefree and relieved to be dead. But then after a while, when the excitement wore off, I stopped exploring and began to think. Immediately the globe of the earth appeared before me and my heart swelled so huge with longing to be there on the earth “to help and heal and lift the curse.” But I knew I could not go back to the earth, my time there had ended, and I had not fufilled my mission. I woke up and I felt something I had never felt before. I felt eternal. It’s the most difficult feeling to explain but I knew then that the same person I am today is the same person I was before I came here and the same person I will be when I leave. I learned that my “self” was an eternal being. I thought I would change and become my normal self when I died, but the dream was telling me that I was the same today, yesterday, and forever. I knew these things by the spirit and even though I cannot bring in the spiritual knowing that I experienced that day, I can remember feeling eternal. I am grateful to my Father for showing me my error so that I could shift my paradigm. And writing this helps me know my eternal self again, which builds my confidence, helps me to trust myself, and takes away my fears. Thank you.


    • (Spencer) says:

      How lovely and sweet. Being Eternal is the greatest gift of knowledge that we receive for it is light and truth. It moves us beyond all that is of this earth and connects us with our Eternity.


  9. Miles says:

    My veil is so thick that it is very hard for me to get a visual of what is being written here. I enjoy and treasure that you take the time to feed me with these treasures. Thank you guys for not giving up on us stragglers. This Sunday was the best and your blog information makes it even better. Please keep it up, I can’t get enough.
    Miles in Alaska


  10. Donald says:

    Hello Spencer,
    Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences. I have a (trivial) question that has been on my mind for some time. When you passed from mortality to the spirit world, how were you clothed once you arrived? I have wondered when it is my time to leave this world (assuming any clothing I am wearing will remain with my mortal body)… if I will be clothed some way in a robe once arriving in the spirit world? I’m guessing we leave this world in the same way we entered it…..I’m sure some kind hearted nurse immediately wrapped me in a blanket to keep me warm. Just wondering.
    -kind regards


  11. Marsha says:

    Thank you for the wonderful article today. It has been a beautiful Sabbath day to read, ponder, study, and pray. Thank you for such wonderful light and knowledge you have shared which has greatly facilitated my Sabbath seeking!


  12. Hehea says:

    It is so pleasing to the soul reading your words, and feeling your faith and testimony. I have read your book and have heard your testimony at the Reunion, and it has opened up my understanding of the scriptures in so many ways, and the scriptures have become more simple and profound.

    Spencer, you mentioned in your talk at the Reunion that “Everything but us is constantly praising God”. I wept as i listened to you said that, and i was deeply moved unto repentance. I’ve tried to praise God constantly. I’ve prayed and have expressed constantly in my heart my gratitude, but is there more ways of praising His name, or a more appropriate way to praise Him?

    Thank you for this message. It deepens my gratitude to the Lord for you and your gift, and for John, and for others in this Unblog.


  13. Shauna says:

    Thank you very much Spencer. There is so much in what you have written to ponder and I am planning to start by once again reading Joseph Smith History and studying in detail the passages of scripture Moroni emphasized. I am so grateful for your willingness to share your thoughts and insight with the Unblog Family and anxiously await part two!


  14. Vicki says:

    I am so very happy that HF let Spencer have his repeated NDE’s, but ecstatic and appreciative beyond words that both Spencer and John have received Father’s permission to share their knowledge with us. Their knowledge, and the ability to share it, has been a wonderful blessing in my life which has brought me closer to my Savior, Redeemer, and elder brother, even Jesus Christ.


  15. Carol says:

    This goes so well with the previous entry by Eric on having faith. Thinking about time here as we now experience, we have such a short time to learn complete faith in our Heavenly Father and His Holy Son. How necessary to do so here and now!


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